Saturday, December 27, 2008

John Loftus's "Case" Against Christianity is a Failure

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Dr. Guthrie, who has a Ph.D. in philosophy, carefully examined and logically analyzed John Loftus's complaints about Christianity, and here is his conclusion:

Loftus' case against Christianity is the same old, tired responses offered up by many who have not bothered to do some of the work in uncovering (i) what Christians actually believe and (ii) what the philosophical, scientific, and empirical evidence warrants. If he wasn't plagued by "moutains out of molehills" then he might not make these far-reaching and absurd claims about Christian veracity.


But don't expect this to be announced anytime soon on John's blog. After all, atheist apologists like Loftus cannot let criticisms from the outside world reach the ears of their faithful followers. And John wants to make as much money as possible with his book, so he must maintain the lie that his "case against Christianity" contains good arguments (it has none). Here is the rest of Guthrie's assessment:

It may not be of much surprise, but I'm not terribly moved by his arguments. Most importantly, the case he summarizes at http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/john_loftus/christianity.html is neither new nor particularly challenging. It represents the typical Christian-turned-atheist persona of someone who no longer felt moved by the Spirit of God and opted to embrace every seed of doubt postulated by Christianity's critics. It's a foxhole to be sure. Let's examine his case in brief:

Sociological Reasons

Loftus' key argument is found in his statement that "an individual's religion is almost invariably determined by 'when and where one was born.' And since there are no mutually agreed upon tests for evaluating religious claims, it is little wonder that social, cultural, and political forces overwhelmingly determine what individuals believe." But it doesn't follow that simply because individuals derive their beliefs from their cultural milieu that, therefore, those beliefs are false. This is the genetic fallacy. It no more invalidates the belief any more than it invalidates the conclusion that infanticide is wrong even though certain Eskimo cultures embraced it as a normal practice.

Philosophical Reason 1

Loftus presents three disjunctive claims about the origin of the universe - one of which is necessary to believe:

1. Something has always existed—always.
2. Something popped into existence out of absolutely nothing.
3. Our existence in the universe is absurd to the core.

He opts for accepting either #1 or #2 here because since we enter into epistemology from an agnostic position then "moving from agnosticism to atheism is a much smaller step than moving toward full-blown Christianity" and Christianity "entails a greater number of claims and thus is inherently more difficult to defend." But this is multiply flawed. First, as I've noted in my own work, the cosmological evidence at worst rules out atheism. Loftus himself even says, "I might happily concede deism"! Secondly, even if it were true that the case for Christianity is more complicated it doesn't follow that one ought to adopt atheism because its pathway is simpler. This approach has been largely abandoned by non-theistic physicalists who assert that, though it is more complicated to explain free will and human experience in physicalism than Cartesian dualism, they assure us physicalism is the view to embrace. Finally, I surely dispute that #2 is every bit as "absurd" as #1. Number 2 requires the truthfulness of #1 (as cosmological arguments discuss), but #1 does not need #2. But if #1 is eminently more plausible, then such is best explained by a necessary being who is personal (I've argued elsewhere for this conclusion).

Philosophical Reason 2

Loftus also objects to Christianity on grounds that it is a double-standard in that they believe "the biblical miracles because they accept the Christian faith, but they are skeptical of the miracles of other religions." But he simply doesn't understand the probability calculus. Yes, one must take into account the known accounts of miracles in the past - by everyone! And Christian miracles do come out as largely improbable events when only their relative frequencies are assessed. But this is not surprising to a Christian. Instead, what Loftus would have to include in the background information is the fact that a traditional conception of God is true, that the particular evidence for a Christian miracle claim is better than not, and that any counter-hypothesis is not as likely given the evidence as the Christian conclusion. In terms of the resurrection of Jesus, this is precisely what we find!

Scientific Reason 1

This one is really bad in Loftus' arsenal. He argues that since we employ a "methodological naturalism" in doing science and such science explains away some particular instances of supernaturalism, therefore Christianity is not likely true. Therefore, "how likely is it that a methodology that has worked so well in every other area of investigation would not shed light on the truth or falsehood of" Christian beliefs in general? First, note that this is not a scientific claim to assert methodological naturalism, this is a philosophical claim about science. Secondly, the conclusion again doesn't follow from the premises. Even if it's true that one ought to use this approach and that some events deemed supernatural can now be explained away naturally, it does not follow that Christian beliefs are not likely true. Finally, at best, such naturalistic explanations opposing Christian ones begin from an equally problematic assumption - that there is no God. So even if the evidence for a particular Christian claim suggests its truthfulness over naturalistic alternatives, the methodological naturalist has to jettison it and opt for a naturalistic alternative - no matter how fantastic the evidence for it might be!

Scientific Reason 2

This is just an extension of the latter point by underscoring the idea that science in general has discredited certain Christian claims of antiquity. And complaints that one would prefer a physical treatment to prayer simply caricatures what Christians actually believe. In short, it's a straw man here.

Biblical Reason 1

Loftus argues that the biblical God is "clearly a hateful, racist, and sexist divinity." But even if he were right about those particular passages he cites to make his point, it only serves to show that perhaps the Bible is not inerrant, not that Christianity is not true.

Biblical Reason 2

Here he makes the same mistakes as he did in the scientific reasons noted above. He complains that supernatural beliefs were derived from superstition. By and large this is true, but the Bible actually undos and demythologizes those things (i.e., Genesis 1 shows that the sun, moon, and stars are not deities of their own as Israel's neighbors believed but mere created things of God, that one's elevation is irrelevant to answered prayer - cf. John 4:20-24, etc...).

Historical Reason 1

Loftus's basic contention here is that "[a]lmost anything can be rationally denied in history, even if the event happened" and, therefore, [implicitly] Christianity is not likely true. This is yet another non-sequitur. But more importantly Loftus fails to understand that Christianity's truth is not based on the evidence of history. It's based on the realilty of God and His continuing presence. The evidence merely gives probable support for what we already know and experience.

Historical Reason 2

His complaint here can be summarized in his opening sentence, "The history of the Christian Church undermines the veracity of Christianity." He cites the Inquisition, Crusades, Witch Hunts, etc. in making his point. Can you say Joseph Stalin and Mao Tse-Tsung? And contrary to popular belief, most wars are not fought in the name of religion but in the name of control. In effect, they're carrying out the Nietzschian atheist's dictum that morality is the will to power!

Empirical Reason

Surprisingly, Loftus invokes the now-defunct deductive problem of evil. He writes, "If God exists, the reality of intense suffering is a stubborn fact indicating that something is wrong with God's ability, goodness, or knowledge." But, as I've argued elsewhere, if you're going to argue that the existence of an all-good, all-powerful God exists is logically contradictory to the existence evil in the world then you have to show why. Loftus doesn't defend himself here.

Loftus concludes his essay explaining what it would take to convince him. But all he's arguing for is an increase in an awareness of God in history. But as he is so often fond of pointing out, atheism was not a problem in antiquity and yet overwhelmingly few people were part of the family of God. How could Loftus guarantee that had the evidence been more abundant, then the amount of true believers would have increased more than what the actual world contains? And I can't imagine how he could prove this.

Thus, Loftus' case against Christianity is the same old, tired responses offered up by many who have not bothered to do some of the work in uncovering (i) what Christians actually believe and (ii) what the philosophical, scientific, and empirical evidence warrants. If he wasn't plagued by "moutains out of molehills" then he might not make these far-reaching and absurd claims about Christian veracity.

Monday, December 22, 2008

John Loftus Should Stop Misleading People

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John Loftus misleadingly wants his readers to believe that Christian apologists are recommending his book for its alleged intellectual merit. Not so. One apologist John loves to name-drop is Norman Geisler. According to someone who personally corresponded with Geisler about this issue, here is Geisler's real opinion (the one John doesn't want anybody to know about):

Geisler does recommend it because it shows the way people turn into atheists. It's not for rational reasons. It's for emotional reasons. Just read the first few chapters and look at all that Loftus did and see what happened.

Geisler didn't think the arguments were that good. In fact, in the review, he uses the term of "high school level apologetics." Geisler's point is that people become atheists not for rational reasons but for emotional reasons. Now I know Geisler emailed DJ with his sympathies and I'm quite sure Geisler was accurate in that. Geisler is an incredibly compassionate guy. He still wants the point to be sure. People become atheists not for rational reasons but for emotional ones.

Saturday, December 20, 2008

Loftus Bans All Independent Commenters

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Only DC authors themselves will be allowed to comment on DC now. John has personally been filtering out criticism for several days now. That has taken so much of his time, apparently, that he is now opting for a full ban on all comments made by non-DC authors. He says:


I know many of you like to comment on a post of ours, and we like to have good feedback from you. But I am temporarily suspending this for the holidays. No matter what I do it's time consuming for me to moderate comments and/or when not moderating them to delete comments that do not meet our comment policy. We have Blog terrorists who hit every so often. In addition I receive many emails a day to answer (which I'm no longer publishing on my profile), and people make comments on over 1400 past posts, some of which require a response from me.... On some days we need Blog maintenance (right now the "Recent Comments" link isn't properly working). So for the holidays enjoy what we write. This is only temporary. If you must comment do it on your own Blogs. Sorry, I need to do this.


Of course, the real reason for the ban is that John has been receiving too much criticism lately. (If it were really a "time" issue, John coul simply ask the other authors to moderate comments.) John knows that when he posts entries with indefensible claims, the best thing he can do is censor independent commentary.

Friday, December 19, 2008

Prophecy

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Philosopher Chad McIntosh on the role of prophecy as evidence. Philosopher, theologian, and IT Business Executive, Glenn Miller on Messianic prophecy and on the question of whether NT writers used such prophecy honestly.

Yet today John Loftus states, as if there aren't arguments to the contrary, that "there is no OT prophecy of Jesus' birth, ministry, death, or resurrection that is to be legitimately considered a prophecy that was fulfilled in any grammatical-historical sense pointing specifically to Jesus."

John seems to have the same attitude on his blog as he does in his pitiful book: sweeping claims are enough to establish the truth of one's beliefs and arguments about the details aren't necessary.

Yeah. Best of luck with that, John.
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A Nontheist Assesses the "Does God Exist?" Section of Loftus's Book: Finds it Lacking

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What follows is part of a review "Darrin" (nontheist, DC blogger) wrote on John Loftus's book, which seems to have angered John a great deal. (Edit*: please be sure to read the updates at the bottom of this entry, as this review caused quite a stir) :

John, by his own admission, is a theologian and not a philosopher; his home library, which looks like it would belong in the home of an apologist rather than an atheist, speaks to his preference for challenging himself with theology over academic philosophy. As a result, we do not have as strong of a case against general arguments for God in comparison to John's case against Christianity or presentation of the Outsider Test; we have an overview, but nothing along the lines of a Quentin Smith or a Michael Martin. John will need to flesh these out a bit in future editions, since God's fundamental existence is in my assessment one of the most important questions men can consider, even more so than the specific Christian claim.


I also noticed how flimsy John's section on the existence of God was; and the same goes for his sections on Christianity in particular. Readers: if you're interested in more of the same superficial atheism we've been bombarded with since 2001, buy John's book. If you're tired of the same, and you want to actually educate yourself, start here.

Here are more criticisms from Darrin's review:

Additionally, the Outsider Test... suffers a logical issue - if one considers his beliefs silly looking in from the outside, that does not make those beliefs any more or less objectively true or false. In conversation, John countered that the main logical thrust would be that otherwise ignored logical contradictions in e.g. religious texts ought to be more readily apparent to the believer via his method, but as Bill Craig says in the case for contradictions in the Bible, this only proves that inerrancy is false. It does not render Christianity false. In light of this, I would like to see what John thinks of this criticism.

Another minor faultline within the Outsider Test in its specific application to Christianity is that it literally will do nothing for Calvinist Presuppositionalists; their own argument is that the Bible itself teaches that any outsider (i.e. the reprobate) will view the religion as silly. So the Calvinist, faced with the Outsider Test, would happily agree with the method and might even claim that it in fact further *proves* their belief that God's grace is the only way one can seek God.

The book is also plagued by numerous grammar and punctuation errors, and reads like a freshly submitted, unedited and raw manuscript that the editor sent to the presses unchecked to collect an easy paycheck.
.... The chapter on unanswered prayer comes to mind as an example of this effect. I don't know what happened with this exactly - perhaps John didn't bother with correcting his own draft in anticipation of his editor's work - but I would recommend John at the very least triple-check his book himself for these errors.


UPDATE 10:49 AM (PST): Loftus furiously explodes the comment section of his own blog! Of the 13 comments left for this review so far, 11 of them are John's complaints. Settle the eff down, John!

UPDATE 12:19 PM (PST): The review and comments have now been taken down from DC! Whether John himself censored it or whether Darrin felt pressured into removing it is unknown. Either way, good thing we documented most of it above.

Thursday, December 18, 2008

Pseudo-science on DC

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Marlene Winell is excited to promote unscientific warm-and-fuzzies for the faithful DC followers to an extent that would be envied by Oprah. Here's a sample:


We have these religious and secular interpretations [of the Christmas child], and I would like to suggest a third – a soulful interpretation.

The Child archetype connects to each of us in a personal way as well....

On the deepest level, the Child connects to matters of the soul, which is the essence of how we actually experience being alive.

When new parents talk about holding a newborn, they talk of a “miracle” with overwhelming feelings. Anyone can have these feelings about a baby, and there is a tug on something deep within. What is that? This is our core, our Original Child, our personal manifestation of the archetype, alive deep inside.


Great rational, scientific post there, Marlene. Keep 'em coming.

DELF Entry: Lie

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John Loftus creates a fake blog, uses it to criticize an apologist, and acts like he "just discovered" it. Details here. He later confessed to the dishonesty but showed little remorse. Is it possible that John and other atheists have created several atheist blogs owned by mere sock puppets? It seems so, in which case those long atheist blogrolls become questionable.

A "Lie" entry has been added to the DELF Database.

Tuesday, December 16, 2008

Inaugural entry into DELF Database

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There are already two submissions to our Documented Errors, Lies, and Fallacies (DELF) of "Debunking Christianity" Database. One of them is pending. The other made it after review:



Matt,

Here's a submission for the blog......

Loftus fallaciously remarked as follows: "In the first place, what is the evidence against the existence of fairies or unicorns? If by looking and not seeing any isn’t considered evidence against their existence, then I don’t know what is required here. Let Dr. Craig first provide evidence against the existence of fairies or unicorns and I’ll provide evidence against the existence of God."

Link to Occurrence: http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2008/12/what-evidence-is-there-against.html

John here commits the fallacy of false analogy. Wiki explanation: In an analogy, two concepts, objects or events proposed to be similar in nature (A and B) are shown to have some common relationship with another property. The premise is that A has property X, and thus B must also have property X (due to the assumed similarity of A and B). In false analogies, though A and B may be similar in one respect (such as color) they may not both share property X (e.g. size). Thus, even if bananas and the sun appear yellow, one could not conclude that they are the same size. The concept of an extraordinarily powerful, all-knowing, all-good, personal being (i.e., God) is not analogous to John's imaginations about "fairies" and "unicorns", since the concepts involve fundamentally distinct properties. Thus John's demand for Craig to provide evidence against fairies and unicorns is nonsensical, and John uses it as a means to avoid giving evidence for his own atheistic worldview.

Thanks!


Thank you for your submission, we've added it to DELF.

(To contribute to our database, please see the submission guidelines.)

Loftus Chortles About His Book...

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...for the 3299965th time. We get it, John. You want your book read. You wish it were placed on the shelf at Borders next to other, more successful new atheist books. You'd like to make some money if possible.

Today John tells us that the oft-discredited pseudo-philosopher and member of the "rational response squad", Richard Carrier, whose own book was a dismal failure, "highly recommends" it.

Figures.

How to Become an Expert Atheist Apologist

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Coming soon.

Censored Comments on Debunking Christianity

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If you are wondering why there isn't too much critical commentary on DC, it's quite possibly due to the fact that John Loftus and other DC authors personally filter all submitted comments. Many comments do not make it out into the open for others to see, as this would likely cause doubts about the claims made on DC. After all, any critical thinking is corrosive to atheism. Since we believe in free expression and critical thought here at Debunking DC, we have begun a database of commentary that fell victim to DC censorship.

The rules are easy: when you leave a comment at DC, make sure to copy it separately in case it's censored. If the comment is indeed censored, submit your copy of it to mattcast29@gmail.com and it will be displayed in this post. Include the date/time of the comment.

Thursday, December 11, 2008

Reviews of Recent Atheist Books

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Coming Soon.

Submission Guidelines for Errors, Lies, and Fallacies of DC

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If you have observed an error, lie, or fallacy on Debunking Christianity, please follow some simple guidelines to submit it to our growing database. Send an email to mattcast29@gmail.com containing the following:

1. A link to the relevant occurrence.
2. The name of the person responsible for the occurrence (must be a DC author).
3. A reasonable explanation of why the occurrence is an error, lie, or fallacy.

After careful review, we will make a decision as to whether your submission will be added to the database.

Documented Errors, Lies, and Fallacies of Debunking Christianity

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What follows is a catalog arranged thematically of errors, lies, and fallacies spotted on Debunking Christianity. Please help build this database by submitting your own observations to mattcast29@gmail.com. If you satisfy the submission guidelines, your contribution will be added to this list. If you would like to include a link to your homepage or blog as the party responsible for submission, please indicate so in your email.

Apologetics

Lie: John Loftus creates a fake blog, uses it to criticize an apologist, and then lies to his readers that he "recently discovered" the blog -- to deceive them into thinking that multiple people were in on the criticism.
Submission Date: 12/18/08
Submitted by: Anonymous

Atheism

Christianity

Free Will

Morality

Naturalism

Religion

Scripture

Theism


1. Fallacy: John Loftus commits the fallacy of false analogy.
Submission Date: 12/16/08
Submitted by: Charlie

Theology


Who (Really) are the Contributors of Debunking Christianity?

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[under construction]

John Loftus

Hector Avalos

Joe Holeman

John Westley ("exapologist")

Lee Randolph


Marlene Winell

...



Thursday, September 18, 2008

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If you are interested in being a contributor for this upcoming blog, drop me a line at:

rose.charlie79@gmail.com

Thursday, September 11, 2008

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Working on code.